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Thread: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

  1. #1
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    *ask* where it should go!

    I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.

    Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    belongs?


  2. #2
    Ext User(philo ) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 09/24/2013 09:50 AM, jan wrote:
    > Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    > and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    > *ask* where it should go!
    >
    > I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    > wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    > variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >
    > Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    > the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    > belongs?
    >




    If the program works, then it is where it belongs.

  3. #3
    Ext User(p-0''0-h the cat (ES)) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:50:11 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:

    >Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    >and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    >*ask* where it should go!
    >
    >I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    >wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    >variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >
    >Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    >the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    >belongs?


    It belongs in Program Files. The only mismanagement here is end user.
    Get a life.

    --
    p-0.0-h the cat

    Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
    Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
    Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
    the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
    the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
    shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
    smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
    liar, and shill.

    Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
    By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.



  4. #4
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:04:59 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (ES) wrote:

    > It belongs in Program Files.


    Hmmmmmm..... if all programs belonged in Program Files, then
    why do almost all (except the very few badly written ones)
    ask the user which partition they want to install them in?

    Or, do you only use one partition on all your computers?

    Which brings up the need for a program relocator.

    In the past, COA was freeware, but nowadays, is there a good
    freeware program relocator?


  5. #5
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:50:29 -0500, philo wrote:

    > If the program works, then it is where it belongs.


    I keep my operating system on a separate partition from
    the files I care about.

    Whether the program 'works' is only a baseline consideration.

    What matters to me is to think deeper than just whether
    a program executes.

    I have a comprehensive backup system, which includes
    putting programs I care about on a separate partition.

    So, for me, it matters *where* a program is installed.

    Do you know of any "relocator" programs that will move
    the installed DeVeDe to the partition where I want it
    to be?


  6. #6
    Ext User(Paul) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    jan wrote:
    > Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    > and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    > *ask* where it should go!
    >
    > I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    > wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    > variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >
    > Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    > the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    > belongs?
    >


    A quick snoop says it uses WiX installer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiX

    "The Windows Installer XML (WiX, pronounced "wicks"),
    is a free software toolset that builds Windows Installer
    (MSI) packages from an XML document. It supports a command-line
    environment that developers may integrate into their build
    processes to build MSI and MSM setup packages. WiX was the
    first software released by Microsoft under an open-source
    license called Common Public License."

    There is no evidence of any WiX related materials in the source
    tarball.

    The download is a .msi file. If you double click that, I presume
    msiexec.exe runs and installs the program. The msiexec can also
    be run from Command Prompt.

    *******

    http://blogs.technet.com/b/alexshev/...ix-part-1.aspx

    "msiexec /i Minimal.msi INSTALLDIR=c:\MinimalTest"

    There is plenty of material around, if you have the
    time to waste on it.

    I take it, in that example, "INSTALLDIR" overrides a
    variable inside the package, and is not a property
    of msiexec as such. It's being passed to the
    package, and it's up to something in there to
    respond to it. No guarantees.

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/297478

    "Here, a custom property, INSTALLDIR, is used to
    support the installation path to a different drive."

    And that means, it's up to the package itself, whether
    it wants to support such a thing.

    And it may even poorly support it, by say, installing
    main program in INSTALLDIR and installing dependencies
    in Program Files. DeVeDe looks like it depends on other
    things. It's a Python program, so likely a lot of the
    download is some sort of Python support.

    Since the stuff inside the .msi is well obfuscated,
    I can't even tell you what packages or code are in
    there. When you get a Windows port of a Linux program,
    and the source doesn't represent what the Windows team
    is doing for build/install, we're left to guess how
    they're building it up. A quick glance at the tarball,
    it looks like the tarball is just for Linux, and a
    separate "recipe" is used for Windows.

    It probably would have been easier to use a VM and
    run it from a Linux guest. If you didn't want clutter
    in your main OS.

    WiX is actually from Microsoft, and was made available
    to the community. And it probably wasn't meant to put
    all the other commercial installer companies out of
    business. Every installer supports a different level
    of GUI support, and at least some flavors of installer
    are mainly intended for silent installation. The
    developers of devede may have selected WiX because
    it was "free", instead of because it was appropriate
    for the job.

    Paul

  7. #7
    Ext User(philo ) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 09/24/2013 11:58 AM, jan wrote:

    <portions snipped>
    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:50:29 -0500, philo wrote:
    >
    >> If the program works, then it is where it belongs.

    >
    > I keep my operating system on a separate partition from
    > the files I care about.
    >
    > Whether the program 'works' is only a baseline consideration.
    >
    > What matters to me is to think deeper than just whether
    > a program executes.
    >
    > I have a comprehensive backup system, which includes
    > putting programs I care about on a separate partition.




    That will not work. If you ever did need to reinstall your OS, having
    your programs on another partition would be utterly useless. Due to the
    registry entries , most of them would not work.

    Additionally, because Microsoft now uses a folder called "Program Files
    (x86) " some 32bit programs will not install there as they will see that
    folder as having illegal characters.


  8. #8
    Ext User(p-0''0-h the cat (ES)) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:00:26 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:

    >On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:04:59 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (ES) wrote:
    >
    >> It belongs in Program Files.

    >
    >Hmmmmmm..... if all programs belonged in Program Files, then
    >why do almost all (except the very few badly written ones)
    >ask the user which partition they want to install them in?


    So people who think they know better can install applications in a less
    secure manner.

    >Or, do you only use one partition on all your computers?


    One partition per disk.

    >Which brings up the need for a program relocator.


    No need.

    >In the past, COA was freeware, but nowadays, is there a good
    >freeware program relocator?


    Program Files is special. It supports folder and registry
    virtualisation.

    File and registry virtualization helps users who have restricted access
    to the registry and to the file system write to these protected areas.
    Virtualization creates a "per user" copy and then redirects successive
    data operations. For example, assume that an application is running
    under a Limited User Account or under accounts that require User Account
    Control permissions. When this application writes to a system location,
    such as to the %programfiles% folder, Windows Vista and Windows 7
    redirect write operations and read operations to a user-specific
    location in the user’s profile folder (%localappdata%\VirtualStore). By
    default, this location is
    C:\Users\User_name\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Prog ram
    Files\Application_name. Registry virtualization works similarly but
    applies to registry keys under the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE subtree.
    The keys and data under this subtree are redirected to the
    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Classes\VirtualStore
    subkey.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa905330.aspx

    --
    p-0.0-h the cat

    Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
    Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
    Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
    the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
    the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
    shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
    smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
    liar, and shill.

    Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
    By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.



  9. #9
    Ext User(Ken Springer) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 9/24/13 11:00 AM, jan wrote:
    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:04:59 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (ES) wrote:
    >
    >> It belongs in Program Files.

    >
    > Hmmmmmm..... if all programs belonged in Program Files, then
    > why do almost all (except the very few badly written ones)
    > ask the user which partition they want to install them in?


    They only belong in Program Files if that's where you want them.
    Nothing stops you from putting them anywhere else. And of course, for
    64 bit systems, there's 2 program file folders, one for 64 bit programs
    and one for 32 bit programs.

    FWIW, the programmer doesn't even have to have the program listed in the
    registry.

    > Or, do you only use one partition on all your computers?


    Sadly, most people do.

    > Which brings up the need for a program relocator.


    Being cynical about any OS or program, I always let the installer put
    the program where it wants, in case there's an undiscovered bug that may
    cause problems.

    > In the past, COA was freeware, but nowadays, is there a good
    > freeware program relocator?
    >



    --
    Ken

    Mac OS X 10.8.5
    Firefox 23.0
    Thunderbird 17.0.8
    LibreOffice 4.1.0.4

  10. #10
    Ext User(Guy) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    jan wrote:

    > Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    > and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    > *ask* where it should go!
    >
    > Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    > the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    > belongs?
    >



    Uninstall and reinstall into a target directory.

    At an elevated prompt:

    msiexec /x someprogram.msi
    msiexec /passive TARGETDIR="x:\some directory" /i someprogram.msi


  11. #11
    Ext User(FredW) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 16:58:45 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    >On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:50:29 -0500, philo wrote:
    >
    >> If the program works, then it is where it belongs.

    >
    >I keep my operating system on a separate partition from
    >the files I care about.
    >
    >Whether the program 'works' is only a baseline consideration.
    >
    >What matters to me is to think deeper than just whether
    >a program executes.
    >
    >I have a comprehensive backup system, which includes
    >putting programs I care about on a separate partition.


    For this purpose I prefer portable versions of programs.

    I have Windows and non-portable programs on my C:\ partition.
    I have portable programs and data (documents, etc.) on a separate
    partition.

    This makes backing up much easier.

    I do not know of any 'relocation' program.
    I expect such a program (if it would exist) will not work.

    --
    Fred W. (NL)

  12. #12
    Ext User(G. Ross) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    jan wrote:
    > Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    > and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    > *ask* where it should go!
    >
    > I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    > wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    > variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >
    > Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    > the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    > belongs?
    >


    Partition Magic used to have a separate program called "Magic Mover".
    It would move the program and re-set all the pointers so that it
    would work just as it used to. Haven't used that for years and have
    no Idea if it would work under Win7.

    --
     GW Ross 

     I didn't fight my way to the top of 
     the food chain to be a vegetarian. 







  13. #13
    Ext User(Ken Blake) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:22:17 -0400, "G. Ross" <gwr95@comwest.net>
    wrote:

    > jan wrote:
    > > Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    > > and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    > > *ask* where it should go!
    > >
    > > I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    > > wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    > > variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    > >
    > > Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    > > the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    > > belongs?
    > >

    >
    > Partition Magic used to have a separate program called "Magic Mover".
    > It would move the program and re-set all the pointers so that it
    > would work just as it used to. Haven't used that for years and have
    > no Idea if it would work under Win7.



    There have been several such programs over the years. I've tried many
    of them, and for all, I found that they sometimes worked and sometimes
    didn't. Frequently they missed things that were needed.

    It's for that reason that I recommend against all such programs; they
    can't be relied on.

  14. #14
    Ext User(Danny D.) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    Try this:

    c:> msiexec /passive TARGETDIR="d:\apps\editor\dvd\devede" /i devede-setup-3.17.0-build2.msi

  15. #15
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:10:16 -0400, Paul wrote:

    > "msiexec /i Minimal.msi INSTALLDIR=c:\MinimalTest"


    I hopefully tried this, but, it didn't do anything.
    It brought up the acceptance screen, but nothing else.
    Maybe I have the syntax wrong?


  16. #16
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:03:07 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

    > Try this:
    >
    > c:> msiexec /passive TARGETDIR="d:\apps\editor\dvd\devede" /i
    > devede-setup-3.17.0-build2.msi


    doesn't do anything!


  17. #17
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:45:58 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

    > It's for that reason that I recommend against all such programs; they
    > can't be relied on.


    Well, I agree - as I've used COA to move things in the past, and,
    it only works for the easy stuff (which this might be).

    But it wouldn't be needed if the program simply asked where you
    want to install it.

    (Alnmost) every other program asks. Why not DeVeDe?


  18. #18
    Ext User(~BD~) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    Ken Blake wrote:
    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:22:17 -0400, "G. Ross" <gwr95@comwest.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> jan wrote:
    >>> Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    >>> and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    >>> *ask* where it should go!
    >>>
    >>> I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    >>> wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    >>> variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >>>
    >>> Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    >>> the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    >>> belongs?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Partition Magic used to have a separate program called "Magic Mover".
    >> It would move the program and re-set all the pointers so that it
    >> would work just as it used to. Haven't used that for years and have
    >> no Idea if it would work under Win7.

    >
    >
    > There have been several such programs over the years. I've tried many
    > of them, and for all, I found that they sometimes worked and sometimes
    > didn't. Frequently they missed things that were needed.
    >
    > It's for that reason that I recommend against all such programs; they
    > can't be relied on.


    Please respond, Ken .... to:-
    Message-ID: <l1fare$dcu$2@dont-email.me>



  19. #19
    Ext User(mick) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 24/09/2013 15:50:11, jan wrote:
    > Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    > and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    > *ask* where it should go!
    >
    > I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    > wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    > variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >
    > Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    > the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    > belongs?


    I've had this happen with programs installing in the c:\ root directory
    before. Just cut and paste it all in the C:\programs folder. If it
    works, all well and good, if it don't you haven't lost anything, just
    re-install again.

    --
    mick



  20. #20
    Ext User(Steve Hayes) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:04:59 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (ES)"
    <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:

    >On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:50:11 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    >>and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    >>*ask* where it should go!
    >>
    >>I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    >>wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    >>variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >>
    >>Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    >>the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    >>belongs?

    >
    >It belongs in Program Files. The only mismanagement here is end user.
    >Get a life.


    But you can have a \Program Files\ directory on any of several partitions, and
    might want to use one on another drive if the C: drive is running out of
    space.

    So an installer that insists on installing it on the C: drive is a poor
    installer.




    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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