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Thread: Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

  1. #1
    Ext User(Danny D.) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:57:08 +0200, Carpe_Diem wrote:

    > The best strategy is a disk cloning program


    While that may be true, I suggest that forethought is the best answer
    (and cheapest).

    Here's what *I* do:

    1. I save all my downloaded installers in a specific software hierarchy
    e.g., c:\software\archivers\{IZarc,WinRar,WinZip,etc.
    c:\software\browsers\{firefox,ie,safari,etc.
    c:\software\cleaners\{ccleaner,avast,malwarebytes, etc.
    etc.

    2. I create an ISO of the few store-bought necessities,
    e.g., Microsoft Office can (almost) always be downloaded from MS.com
    Adobe Acrobat disks can be copied and installed from a zip file
    TurboTax can be saved as an ISO file
    etc.

    3. I always put all data in a separate directory, *outside* of all
    Microsoft-provided directories! I can't stress enough the sheer
    importance of never using any Microsoft-provided directory!

    It matters not where you put the data - other than to avoid (like the
    plague) anything created by Microsoft. The reason is that anything that
    other developers know about will be polluted enough to make the Indian
    cry just by the sight of it.

    I keep data in (duh) c:\data, organized by users
    e.g., c:\data\user1\{organized by that user any way they like)
    c:\data\user2\{organized by that user any way they like)
    c:\data\user3\{organized by that user any way they like)
    etc.

    But, the point is to simply keep *all data outside the polluted
    hierarchies*.

    4. The only other thing I do is I maintain a menu hierarchy that is the
    same as the software archive hierarchy (which, incidentally, is the same
    as the software-installation hierarchy in C:\apps\{archiver,browser
    \cleaner,etc}).

    Now comes the easy part. Let's say it's time to re-install the operating
    system. With all the forethought above, the re-install is trivially easy:

    A. Back up the C:\data hierarchy.
    B. Format the hard disk & re-install the operating system
    C. Copy the data back
    D. Copy the menu back
    D. Re-install the applications, one by one, into the same hierarchies
    e.g., c:\apps\archivers\{IZarc,WinRar,WinZip,etc.
    c:\apps\browsers\{firefox,ie,safari,etc.
    c:\apps\cleaners\{ccleaner,avast,malwarebytes,etc.
    etc.

    I've been doing this for 20 years or so!

    Rules of thumb for instant re-use:
    #1. All data you care about goes ONLY in c:\data (nowhere else!)
    #2. Save installers in c:\data\software the moment you download them!
    #3. Set up your menu once, to reflect the software hierarchy 1:1

    Good luck!


  2. #2
    Ext User(Ed Cryer) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    Danny D. wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:57:08 +0200, Carpe_Diem wrote:
    >
    >> The best strategy is a disk cloning program

    >
    > While that may be true, I suggest that forethought is the best answer
    > (and cheapest).
    >
    > Here's what *I* do:
    >
    > 1. I save all my downloaded installers in a specific software hierarchy
    > e.g., c:\software\archivers\{IZarc,WinRar,WinZip,etc.
    > c:\software\browsers\{firefox,ie,safari,etc.
    > c:\software\cleaners\{ccleaner,avast,malwarebytes, etc.
    > etc.
    >
    > 2. I create an ISO of the few store-bought necessities,
    > e.g., Microsoft Office can (almost) always be downloaded from MS.com
    > Adobe Acrobat disks can be copied and installed from a zip file
    > TurboTax can be saved as an ISO file
    > etc.
    >
    > 3. I always put all data in a separate directory, *outside* of all
    > Microsoft-provided directories! I can't stress enough the sheer
    > importance of never using any Microsoft-provided directory!
    >
    > It matters not where you put the data - other than to avoid (like the
    > plague) anything created by Microsoft. The reason is that anything that
    > other developers know about will be polluted enough to make the Indian
    > cry just by the sight of it.
    >
    > I keep data in (duh) c:\data, organized by users
    > e.g., c:\data\user1\{organized by that user any way they like)
    > c:\data\user2\{organized by that user any way they like)
    > c:\data\user3\{organized by that user any way they like)
    > etc.
    >
    > But, the point is to simply keep *all data outside the polluted
    > hierarchies*.
    >
    > 4. The only other thing I do is I maintain a menu hierarchy that is the
    > same as the software archive hierarchy (which, incidentally, is the same
    > as the software-installation hierarchy in C:\apps\{archiver,browser
    > \cleaner,etc}).
    >
    > Now comes the easy part. Let's say it's time to re-install the operating
    > system. With all the forethought above, the re-install is trivially easy:
    >
    > A. Back up the C:\data hierarchy.
    > B. Format the hard disk & re-install the operating system
    > C. Copy the data back
    > D. Copy the menu back
    > D. Re-install the applications, one by one, into the same hierarchies
    > e.g., c:\apps\archivers\{IZarc,WinRar,WinZip,etc.
    > c:\apps\browsers\{firefox,ie,safari,etc.
    > c:\apps\cleaners\{ccleaner,avast,malwarebytes,etc.
    > etc.
    >
    > I've been doing this for 20 years or so!
    >
    > Rules of thumb for instant re-use:
    > #1. All data you care about goes ONLY in c:\data (nowhere else!)
    > #2. Save installers in c:\data\software the moment you download them!
    > #3. Set up your menu once, to reflect the software hierarchy 1:1
    >
    > Good luck!
    >


    I think that would be great if you had to do a complete system rebuild
    from scratch every month; well worth the effort, but otherwise just
    wasted time.

    Ed


  3. #3
    Ext User(Char Jackson) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:01:47 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." <dannyd@is.invalid>
    wrote:

    >Here's what *I* do:
    >
    >3. I always put all data in a separate directory, *outside* of all
    >Microsoft-provided directories! I can't stress enough the sheer
    >importance of never using any Microsoft-provided directory!
    >
    >It matters not where you put the data - other than to avoid (like the
    >plague) anything created by Microsoft. The reason is that anything that
    >other developers know about will be polluted enough to make the Indian
    >cry just by the sight of it.
    >
    >But, the point is to simply keep *all data outside the polluted
    >hierarchies*.


    I don't share your ardent desire to avoid the so-called Microsoft folders.
    Your way apparently works for you, but I don't see the value in it.

    --

    Char Jackson

  4. #4
    Ext User(Wolf K) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On 2013-09-25 9:36 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
    > On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:01:47 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." <dannyd@is.invalid>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Here's what *I* do:
    >>
    >> 3. I always put all data in a separate directory, *outside* of all
    >> Microsoft-provided directories! I can't stress enough the sheer
    >> importance of never using any Microsoft-provided directory!
    >>
    >> It matters not where you put the data - other than to avoid (like the
    >> plague) anything created by Microsoft. The reason is that anything that
    >> other developers know about will be polluted enough to make the Indian
    >> cry just by the sight of it.
    >>
    >> But, the point is to simply keep *all data outside the polluted
    >> hierarchies*.

    >
    > I don't share your ardent desire to avoid the so-called Microsoft folders.
    > Your way apparently works for you, but I don't see the value in it.


    Well, IMO everybody should have at least one external drive big enough
    to hold all the data they want to preserve. Use the internal drive(s)
    for working data, etc, in as many or few partitions as you wish, but
    back up that data. It's inconvenient to lose the system and the
    programs, it's disastrous to lose the data.

    And the really important stuff, such a photos, should be printed. You
    don't need electricity to look at a print.

    Have good one,

    --
    Best,
    Wolf K
    kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

  5. #5
    Ext User(Char Jackson) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:58:03 -0400, Wolf K <wekirch@sympatico.ca> wrote:

    >Well, IMO everybody should have at least one external drive big enough
    >to hold all the data they want to preserve. Use the internal drive(s)
    >for working data, etc, in as many or few partitions as you wish, but
    >back up that data. It's inconvenient to lose the system and the
    >programs, it's disastrous to lose the data.


    I agree that important data should be backed up, but I don't necessarily
    share the recommendation to use an external drive. They can be pretty
    inconvenient.

    >And the really important stuff, such a photos, should be printed. You
    >don't need electricity to look at a print.


    I don't think I'm going to print the thousands of photos that I consider to
    be important, but it's a nice thought.

    --

    Char Jackson

  6. #6
    Ext User(Poutnik) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?


    Char Jackson posted Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:25:09 -0500


    >
    > On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:58:03 -0400, Wolf K <wekirch@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    >
    > >Well, IMO everybody should have at least one external drive big enough
    > >to hold all the data they want to preserve. Use the internal drive(s)
    > >for working data, etc, in as many or few partitions as you wish, but
    > >back up that data. It's inconvenient to lose the system and the
    > >programs, it's disastrous to lose the data.

    >
    > I agree that important data should be backed up, but I don't necessarily
    > share the recommendation to use an external drive. They can be pretty
    > inconvenient.


    It can be internal disk as well, or other **independent** media.

    But, such internal devices are at additional risk
    of common electrical shock or other hardware loss, e.g. if stolen.

    If there is correlation between availability of backup
    and availability of primary data, you have no backup.

    >
    > >And the really important stuff, such a photos, should be printed. You
    > >don't need electricity to look at a print.

    >
    > I don't think I'm going to print the thousands of photos that I consider to
    > be important, but it's a nice thought.


    Well, there is another important factor in age of digital media,
    even professionals struggle with, and it is lifetime of the storage.

    Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    are more durable than digital storage.

    --
    Poutnik

  7. #7
    Ext User(Char Jackson) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    >
    >Char Jackson posted Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:25:09 -0500
    >
    >
    >>
    >> On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:58:03 -0400, Wolf K <wekirch@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Well, IMO everybody should have at least one external drive big enough
    >> >to hold all the data they want to preserve. Use the internal drive(s)
    >> >for working data, etc, in as many or few partitions as you wish, but
    >> >back up that data. It's inconvenient to lose the system and the
    >> >programs, it's disastrous to lose the data.

    >>
    >> I agree that important data should be backed up, but I don't necessarily
    >> share the recommendation to use an external drive. They can be pretty
    >> inconvenient.

    >
    >It can be internal disk as well, or other **independent** media.
    >
    >But, such internal devices are at additional risk
    >of common electrical shock or other hardware loss, e.g. if stolen.


    An external drive, by its very nature, is probably more likely to be stolen
    than an internal drive, but it depends on several factors.

    >If there is correlation between availability of backup
    >and availability of primary data, you have no backup.


    So an external drive is probably a poor choice, due to its typical proximity
    to the system being backed up.

    >> >And the really important stuff, such a photos, should be printed. You
    >> >don't need electricity to look at a print.

    >>
    >> I don't think I'm going to print the thousands of photos that I consider to
    >> be important, but it's a nice thought.

    >
    >Well, there is another important factor in age of digital media,
    >even professionals struggle with, and it is lifetime of the storage.


    There are ways to deal with that.

    >Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    >are more durable than digital storage.


    That *greatly* depends on the paper, the ink, and the storage conditions,
    among other things. I'll put my money on digital storage.

    --

    Char Jackson

  8. #8
    Ext User(Poutnik) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?


    Char Jackson posted Fri, 27 Sep 2013 00:38:13 -0500


    >
    > On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Char Jackson posted Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:25:09 -0500
    > >
    > >
    > >>
    > >> On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:58:03 -0400, Wolf K <wekirch@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >Well, IMO everybody should have at least one external drive big enough
    > >> >to hold all the data they want to preserve. Use the internal drive(s)
    > >> >for working data, etc, in as many or few partitions as you wish, but
    > >> >back up that data. It's inconvenient to lose the system and the
    > >> >programs, it's disastrous to lose the data.
    > >>
    > >> I agree that important data should be backed up, but I don't necessarily
    > >> share the recommendation to use an external drive. They can be pretty
    > >> inconvenient.

    > >
    > >It can be internal disk as well, or other **independent** media.
    > >
    > >But, such internal devices are at additional risk
    > >of common electrical shock or other hardware loss, e.g. if stolen.

    >
    > An external drive, by its very nature, is probably more likely to be stolen
    > than an internal drive, but it depends on several factors.


    Some risks are always around.
    But you miss the point of correlation.

    BTW, if a robber breaks into your house,
    probability of stoling desktop/notebook is higher
    than of stoling USB drive stored in deepness of some drawer.
    >
    > >If there is correlation between availability of backup
    > >and availability of primary data, you have no backup.

    >
    > So an external drive is probably a poor choice, due to its typical proximity
    > to the system being backed up.


    Why do you think so ? You see just black or white.
    The correlation dramatically drops
    with detaching the drive functionally a/o spatially.

    Availability of backup has to be as much independent as practicle
    on availability of primary data.

    Compare inconvenience of backuping versus inconvenience
    of losing both data and backup.

    BTW, external drive is great
    for operational system image backups as well.

    >
    > >> >And the really important stuff, such a photos, should be printed. You
    > >> >don't need electricity to look at a print.
    > >>
    > >> I don't think I'm going to print the thousands of photos that I consider to
    > >> be important, but it's a nice thought.

    > >
    > >Well, there is another important factor in age of digital media,
    > >even professionals struggle with, and it is lifetime of the storage.

    >
    > There are ways to deal with that.


    Yes, they are.
    But professional often treat their most valuable photos by way below.

    >
    > >Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    > >are more durable than digital storage.

    >
    > That *greatly* depends on the paper, the ink, and the storage conditions,
    > among other things. I'll put my money on digital storage.


    Surely they do.


    --
    Poutnik

  9. #9
    Ext User(J. P. Gilliver (John)) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    In message <b56a49tbehubuofo5va3li2hqatmgdnt2n@4ax.com>, Char Jackson
    <none@none.invalid> writes:
    >On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    []
    >>Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    >>are more durable than digital storage.

    >
    >That *greatly* depends on the paper, the ink, and the storage conditions,
    >among other things. I'll put my money on digital storage.
    >

    There's also the matter of restoration: I don't think you are ever going
    to be able to scan a print to retrieve the original image to the same
    resolution (and probably colour space distortions too, and depth
    distortions/losses [the ability to adjust the brightness/contrast to see
    details in shadows, highlights, and areas of strong colour]).

    The longevity of digital storage is a good subject for discussion, but
    I'd never put a print - of an image, anyway - above it for the above
    reasons.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Eve had an Apple, Adam had a Wang...

  10. #10
    Ext User(Poutnik) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?


    J. P. Gilliver (John) posted Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:33:11 +0100


    >
    > In message <b56a49tbehubuofo5va3li2hqatmgdnt2n@4ax.com>, Char Jackson
    > <none@none.invalid> writes:
    > >On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    > []
    > >>Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    > >>are more durable than digital storage.

    > >
    > >That *greatly* depends on the paper, the ink, and the storage conditions,
    > >among other things. I'll put my money on digital storage.
    > >

    > There's also the matter of restoration: I don't think you are ever going
    > to be able to scan a print to retrieve the original image to the same
    > resolution (and probably colour space distortions too, and depth
    > distortions/losses [the ability to adjust the brightness/contrast to see
    > details in shadows, highlights, and areas of strong colour]).
    >
    > The longevity of digital storage is a good subject for discussion, but
    > I'd never put a print - of an image, anyway - above it for the above
    > reasons.


    It was never meant as substitution,
    but as alternative, extra contra-measure.

    It is not my idea, and it is used.

    I have heard recently in radio
    discussion with professional photographers.
    They have dozens and hundreds of hard disks full of data
    and data safety is a big deal.

    For extra valuable photos they do use extra treatment of pigment prints,
    protected against light and oxidation,
    as the last resort, if all digital storages failed.


    --
    Poutnik

  11. #11
    Ext User(Poutnik) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?


    Poutnik posted Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200


    >
    > Char Jackson posted Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:25:09 -0500
    >
    >
    > >
    > > On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:58:03 -0400, Wolf K <wekirch@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    > >
    > > >Well, IMO everybody should have at least one external drive big enough
    > > >to hold all the data they want to preserve. Use the internal drive(s)
    > > >for working data, etc, in as many or few partitions as you wish, but
    > > >back up that data. It's inconvenient to lose the system and the
    > > >programs, it's disastrous to lose the data.

    > >
    > > I agree that important data should be backed up, but I don't necessarily
    > > share the recommendation to use an external drive. They can be pretty
    > > inconvenient.

    >
    > It can be internal disk as well, or other **independent** media.
    >
    > But, such internal devices are at additional risk
    > of common electrical shock or other hardware loss, e.g. if stolen.
    >
    > If there is correlation between availability of backup
    > and availability of primary data, you have no backup.


    It is like recommendation for travelling in dangerous places
    not to have all money at single place.
    If you lost something for whatever reason,
    there is always chance there will be something left.


    --
    Poutnik

  12. #12
    Ext User(Poutnik) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?


    Poutnik posted Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:46:54 +0200


    > It was never meant as substitution,
    > but as alternative, extra contra-measure.
    >
    > It is not my idea, and it is used.
    >
    > I have heard recently in radio
    > discussion with professional photographers.
    > They have dozens and hundreds of hard disks full of data
    > and data safety is a big deal.
    >
    > For extra valuable photos they do use extra treatment of pigment prints,
    > protected against light and oxidation,
    > as the last resort, if all digital storages failed.


    BTW, I suppose they create for these photos
    also large format slides or negatives for long time storage.
    They have better dynamic range than digital files.


    --
    Poutnik

  13. #13
    Ext User(p-0''0-h the cat (ES)) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid>
    wrote:

    >Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    >are more durable than digital storage.


    That's simply not true. Digital storage offers the possibility of
    lasting indefinitely without loss, but few print processes especially
    the common colour ones won't show some form of degradation after 20
    years, especially in the case of photographic prints inadequate washing
    can result in localised staining and poor stabilisation will speed up
    the deterioration in colour which naturally occurs in particular with
    processes that use colour coupled dyes for the final image. Apart from
    some of the specialised and/or older papers which are paper and gelatin,
    most of the 'papers' from the sixties onwards are plastic/paper
    sandwiches which degrade and certainly lose some of their original gloss
    finish, and may become brittle.

    --
    p-0.0-h the cat

    Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
    Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
    Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
    the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
    the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
    shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
    smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
    liar, and shill.

    Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
    By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.



  14. #14
    Ext User(Zaphod Beeblebrox) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:20:58 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (ES)"
    <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in article
    <npea49l5kfgub9ol9uhtq399tfkee3nd47@4ax.com>...
    >
    > On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    > >are more durable than digital storage.

    >
    > That's simply not true. Digital storage offers the possibility of
    > lasting indefinitely without loss,


    I'd be interested in hearing which digital medium you are referring to
    that lasts indefinitely without degradation of the media or data stored
    thereon.

    --
    Zaphod

    Adventurer, ex-hippie, good-timer (crook? quite possibly),
    manic self-publicist, terrible bad at personal relationships,
    often thought to be completely out to lunch.

  15. #15
    Ext User(p-0''0-h the cat (ES)) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:24:43 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
    <Zaphod.Arisztid.Beeblebrox@gmail.com> wrote:

    >On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:20:58 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (ES)"
    ><super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in article
    ><npea49l5kfgub9ol9uhtq399tfkee3nd47@4ax.com>...
    >>
    >> On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    >> >are more durable than digital storage.

    >>
    >> That's simply not true. Digital storage offers the possibility of
    >> lasting indefinitely without loss,

    >
    >I'd be interested in hearing which digital medium you are referring to
    >that lasts indefinitely without degradation of the media or data stored
    >thereon.


    Eh! I wasn't suggesting the physical media didn't degrade, but you can
    migrate the data indefinitely without loss [unless you want to get
    really pedantic about the next mass extinction, or the end of the
    universe etc etc]

    --
    p-0.0-h the cat

    Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
    Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
    Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
    the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
    the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
    shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
    smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
    liar, and shill.

    Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
    By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.



  16. #16
    Ext User(Wolf K) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On 2013-09-26 10:25 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
    > On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:58:03 -0400, Wolf K <wekirch@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    >
    >> Well, IMO everybody should have at least one external drive big enough
    >> to hold all the data they want to preserve. Use the internal drive(s)
    >> for working data, etc, in as many or few partitions as you wish, but
    >> back up that data. It's inconvenient to lose the system and the
    >> programs, it's disastrous to lose the data.

    >
    > I agree that important data should be backed up, but I don't necessarily
    > share the recommendation to use an external drive. They can be pretty


    True. What we need is wi-fied ones that automagically connect to your
    machine when offered the correct password. In fact, every external
    device should be both wi-fi and Bluetooth capable.

    >> And the really important stuff, such a photos, should be printed. You
    >> don't need electricity to look at a print.

    >
    > I don't think I'm going to print the thousands of photos that I consider to
    > be important, but it's a nice thought.


    Um, yes, I too feel that every photo I take is important. But I've
    learned to suppress that thought. Most of the time. ;-)

    I'm scanning negatives and slides, and have stopped scanning every
    frame. Even in the days of expensive film photography, I tended to make
    two or more exposures of the same subject, and often used a whole film
    (or more) on some important event. So there are few _really_ important
    pictures. I print four to a page, which duplicates the photo-print
    album's style. And every once in a while, I'll print a larger display
    photo. I print less than 10% of the digital pictures.

    I'll put in a plea for local museums/archives here. We all have photos
    from the film era that we no longer want, or that our heirs and assigns
    won't want to keep. A surprising number of these are of interest to your
    local museum because of the backgrounds, such as buildings that no
    longer exist, or they are photos of some civic event for which there are
    few or no extant photos. Give such photos to the local museum. You were
    going to toss them anyhow, right?

    Have a good one,

    --
    Best,
    Wolf K
    kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

  17. #17
    Ext User(Wolf K) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On 2013-09-27 1:38 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
    > On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    >> Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    >> are more durable than digital storage.

    >
    > That *greatly* depends on the paper, the ink, and the storage conditions,
    > among other things. I'll put my money on digital storage.


    Digital storage depends on the medium and the reader. Unless you
    transfer to new media as they displace old ones, you'll lose the data.
    That's already happened to analog tape. And to floppy disks. It's
    beginning to happen to optical media, as fewer and fewer machines come
    with CD/DVD drives.

    Besides, all media deteriorate physically, as many families have
    discovered to their dismay when they realised they needed to transfer
    from VHS to digital. I transferred data from floppy disks a couple years
    ago, and was annoyed to discover that about 10% of the disks were no
    longer readable. I'm not saying that the lost data was of earth-shaking
    importance, but I'll wager there's lots of data that's been lost because
    people have blithely assumed that digital is permanent.

    --
    Best,
    Wolf K
    kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

  18. #18
    Ext User(Wolf K) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On 2013-09-27 2:33 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    > In message <b56a49tbehubuofo5va3li2hqatmgdnt2n@4ax.com>, Char Jackson
    > <none@none.invalid> writes:
    >> On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:14:34 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid>
    >> wrote:

    > []
    >>> Prints, especially if protected against light and air,
    >>> are more durable than digital storage.

    >>
    >> That *greatly* depends on the paper, the ink, and the storage conditions,
    >> among other things. I'll put my money on digital storage.
    >>

    > There's also the matter of restoration: I don't think you are ever going
    > to be able to scan a print to retrieve the original image to the same
    > resolution (and probably colour space distortions too, and depth
    > distortions/losses [the ability to adjust the brightness/contrast to see
    > details in shadows, highlights, and areas of strong colour]).
    >
    > The longevity of digital storage is a good subject for discussion, but
    > I'd never put a print - of an image, anyway - above it for the above
    > reasons.


    Look for information on the physical durability of magnetic media and
    optical disks. Horrifying. Solid state memory is even worse, because it
    loses life every time you overwrite data in it.

    When inkjet printing first became available to ordinary folk like you
    and me, several independent labs ran tests. They discovered that inkjet
    prints can be much more durable than photographs. There's a reason the
    printer mfrs specify their own paper and inks for best results. Also, a
    side effect of inkjet printing has been the production of pH neutral
    papers. Most are made so by buffering, which will change the dyes over
    time, sometimes in days (as I have discovered). But on archival papers,
    which are truly neutral, inkjet images will outlast photo-prints. BTW,
    the most durable photographic medium is Kodachrome. Too bad it's no
    longer made.

    Have good one,

    --
    Best,
    Wolf K
    kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

  19. #19
    Ext User(Ken Blake) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:25:09 -0500, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
    wrote:


    > I agree that important data should be backed up, but I don't necessarily
    > share the recommendation to use an external drive. They can be pretty
    > inconvenient.



    Inconvenient? Perhaps.

    But far safer than an internal one. I don't recommend backup to a
    second non-removable hard drive because it leaves you susceptible to
    simultaneous loss of the original and backup to many of the most
    common dangers: severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus
    attacks, even theft of the computer.

  20. #20
    Ext User(Ken Blake) Guest

    Re: how to upgrade hard disk without loosing installed software?

    On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:08:11 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.invalid>
    wrote:

    > BTW, if a robber breaks into your house,
    > probability of stoling desktop/notebook is higher
    > than of stoling USB drive stored in deepness of some drawer.



    *Much* higher. Many burglars wouldn't even know what that USB drive
    was if they found it. And if they did know, they would be less
    interested in it, because they would get less money from their fence
    for it.

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